Fallen and Flawed

Funny story.

My first real clash with the Bible was at a church where I had to memorize verses that I had no idea what they where talking about.
After my family left the church (and fundamentalism) there was almost no Bible reading in my family. Until Marlyn Manson became big.
In high school, my sister had the CD ‘Anti-Christ Superstar’ which had parts of the Revelation on the linear notes. I read those and was terrified. I would secretly read the book over and over again by myself. I needed to know I was going to be one of the “good guys” in the end.
I guess you could say, my first real experience was closer to Josiah…but that was because of the NT, not the OT.

Revelation on linear notes in a Marylin Manson CD? Really? That’s intriguing. Why? I’m guessing that’s NOT the response he wanted…or was it?

It’s a common mistake to treat the Bible as a single book. It is many books, by many authors, from different times and speaking in different voices.

I would assume Afleck meant mainly the gospels and some Hebrew prophets.

Books like Leviticus, Numbers, Joshua and Revelation are certainly hateful, and the God they present would not deserve our love.

Bishop John Spong wrote about such issues in a beautiful book with a telling title: “The Sins of Scripture – Exposing the Bible’s Texts of Hate to Reveal the God of Love”.

Unfortunately conservative Christianity doesn’t distinguish between God and the Bible and ends up worshipping the Bible instead! It’s called bibliolatry.

Hi Jag,

Thank you for admitting you’re assuming. I think if you knew more of the New Testament, you’d find your assumption is flawed.

A person can always find enemies of any given subject or person. We both probably have people who look poorly upon us for one or more reasons. Yet both of us would say their opinions are a bit flawed, and if they got to know us better, they’d find virtues they had overlooked or were not aware of.

It seems that ben Affleck got to know the Bible better than others.

Blessings.

-Steve

The New Testament is wonderful stuff – Jesus was the greatest western philosopher of all time. It’s just convincing 90% of Christians to follow his example that’s proving tricky.

The first Bible I read was probably the 3rd or 4th one I owned if that tells you anything. At 17 and not a Christian I read an NIV Student Bible cover to cover including answering the penetrating life application questions in the margins. It fell on hard soil and I remember thinking this was a waste of time.

Years later listening to the first teaching pastor that really let the Word come alive I remember thinking why is everyone content to leave after an hour? Don’t they know what we’ve stumbled onto here?

Being the less smart type it really helps me to have a good commentary or teaching pastor explaining things. My church this year finished a series on Ecclesiastes and another on the life of Joshua (dry OT stuff) and they way they used the context, language, and intended audience to explain the text and put it in the perspective of one overarching (love) story made it every bit as applicable and enlightening as the book of Philippians.

PS Jag, that Bishop Spong is a real card!

I had some misconceptions growing up about OT books, as my pastor mainly stuck to NT, Psalms, & Proverbs. That was until I began reading the Bible on my own–including the OT. I found another church that taught the WHOLE Bible, and since, I have read the Bible cover-to-cover multiple times, and each time I read it, (as long as I read it with an open mind & heart), I discover new things on every page, every day which both broaden & brighten my perspective on Who God really is, and why we are really here. It’s not about information in our “FYI-what’s your opinion” Age–it’s about what King Solomon would call “living skillfully”. To truly & personally know God and His character (beyond our human limitations) is the most wonderful thing you can experience in your life!

Jag, wow, that’s a sweeping statement! All conservative Christians end up worshiping the Bible? I’m sure you meant it’s a risk and some do and I agree not a good thing, but all of them? I know you weren’t suggesting that.

Anyway, isn’t if funny that the OT God you and your heroes hate was revered and adored by Jesus?

Furthermore, don’t we get more information about hell from Jesus than from anywhere else in the Bible?

And isn’t it interesting fact, too, about the OT that in spite of relentless rebellion from his chosen people who deserved every bit of the justice they got that God repeatedly preserved and practiced mercy and grace?

So, what don’t you like about him?

Don’t get me wrong, Spong and Crossan our intellectual giants, but Christ makes a much better spiritual hero. IMHO, of course.

OK, maybe it was a bit of a hyperbole… It certainly applies to almost all of the vocal conservative Christians. Wish bibliolatry was only a risk; it’s certainly more than that. Just look at what’s happening in the US Episcopal church: the supposed “liberal” embrace and celebrate the continuing revelation of God, while the conservatives keep treating women as livestock and gay people as an underclass because of their mistaken understanding of the Bible. Or consider the “creationist” movement – they expect us to believe their silly ideas just because they think only their understanding of the Bible is correct, and that understanding God through narture is impossible. That’s what I mean by worshipping the Bible.

OT God adored by Jesus? Which God? The one from Leviticus of from Malachi? The Bible speaks in many voices. And how do you know what Jesus believed in? Any eyewitness accounts? All gospels were written at least a generation after Jesus, and none by a person who even met Jesus. You need serious methodology to sift the various layers of tradition. Few managed to do it convincingly. The Jesus Seminar has to be commended here.

There are some sayings in the gospels where Jesus mentions hell, but even assuming they are authentic, they all suggest they are parables only and do not refer to any reality. Are you suggesting that God of Love (the one Jesus taught about) is worse than Hitler and planning an everlasting Holocaust for us?

Of course, Jesus is greater than any theologian. But thank God for those theologians that help us understand Jesus (and embrace God). And nothing could be further removed from Jesus than the God of those OT books that calls Israelites to invade Canaan, slaughter all men, children and all women who had sex, and only to keep alive virgins as sex slaves for themselves. In defence if YHWH we now now that the exodus story did not really happen, and its all campfire stories.

Growing up, I stuck to the NT, if I read it at all.

As an adult, I found I had no idea why I believed what I believed (aside from “My mom told me it’s true), and so I had to find out for myself.

After finding out that some of my beliefs held to be true, and some were of my own making, I had satisfied my need to “prove it” to myself.

There was always something missing. Something in my relationship with the Lord was askew. I knew it was not His lack, but mine. It wasn’t until I read about a year and half ago that I found that missing piece of the puzzle and it was this: I didn’t understand what it meant that God is holy.

So, for me, getting into the OT has been absolutely beautiful and terrible. It has brought me to a fuller understanding of who God is, but also of who I am. The more I read, the greater the chasm between He and I grows. But the greater the chasm grows, so grows the awe and deep, deep, unutterable (please be a word) gratitude towards a God to whom I can offer nothing, but from whom I’ve been given everything.

Jeney: Isn’t it beautiful?

Thank you so much for stopping by and Happy New Year!