I could go on. and on.

Yes, I know these same horrible things are carried out by other faiths, on huge scales. Which in my mind shoes that religion corrupts. I also know that many wars are waged over greed for land or money. Most ‘politics’ though gets down to religion.

Again, I don’t wish to offend and apologize for any reactionary language. But the above is not meant to offend. It is history.

The forgiveness question: this is a tricky one for me that I can’t really make a clear statement on, yet. It’s probably best to just say “I don’t know” which is usually the best thing to say when you don’t…I was raised to think we are all vile and punishable by eternal hellfire. That God and Devil fought over our souls. I no longer believe evil is ‘from hell.’ Humans can be plenty evil all of their own volition. But some evil is like bedbugs or floods- ‘nature’ just like some nature is flowers and beauty. By this I mean simply that people make mistakes, and sometimes aggression hormones go haywire. Many serial killers for example have not just emotional abuse in their childhood but major brain damage that happens when a child is beaten. So even though that resulting violence is unbelievably horrifying and sad, it is not, in that case, from the person’s volition. The sooner we stop demon-chasing and find ways to repair damaged brain tissue, the better. Great strides are being made. That’s just an extreme example. Does dude need forgiveness? Well, yes, of the victim’s family, of society, but we can’t just dish out forgiveness to condone evil.

Then there’s evil that’s not brain damage and yes, every person must be accountable for their actions. But I’m starting to switch gears and understand that our heinous racism, sexism, murderous impulses, and so on are because WE HAVE NOT YET EVOLVED FULLY. Once man hunted one another for food and sport, and not just the primitive devil worshippers, either. Christians have long loved death sports and did it in Jesus’ name. Hating gays and mixed race couples and poor people is because we haven’t fully evolved. 10 thousand years of civilization is nothing, and we’ve come a long way…

The sacrifice is an old ritual, from the beginning,always a god sacrificed to result in the salvation of the tribe or the world. Even the cross is a symbol used in hundreds of world myths. Blood as atonement, bread and wine is an old symbol, all of these symbolic elements predate the Biblical stories.

So right now I”m immersed in learning these stories.

again, thanks for everyone’s comments.

These philosophies focus on hating sinners and heathens and blaming the criminal and the poor on their lack of blessing from God, instead of on the devastating effects of our greed and consumerism.”

Lorette, you said in one of your first comments that you are “well versed in every aspect of doctrine”, yet you make some pretty bold claims in the quote above about those who are considered new calvinists. I have certainly never heard or read anything from John Piper (or any other solid expositor) that would substantiate the claim you made about those who espouse the “new calvinism” that Damian wrote about. In fact, I would say he teaches the exact opposite.

Ryan- savior/better guy question: I’m leaning to better guy quite frankly the more I learn about history, and how many Jesus stories there are the world over, preceding him. There are many holes- like his entire childhood until age 30- where was he? Surely the long awaited birth was something to celebrate and then where did he go? Gnostic scriptures add more the stories that add a different take on “the kingdom of God is at hand.” I could interpret “I am the way the truth and the life no man cometh to the father but by me” easily to say Jesus is the poor, and the poor are truth- he says so over and over. So those who do not help the poor or care for them cannot be part of divinity. This would be very inclusive interpretation, and include other religions as well. Finally, I cannot trust the Bible to be literal and much has been added or subtracted. this is what I”m studying now. No, I don’t think anyone can be totally objective. I do respect Jesus because I beleive the things he said were mystical, beautiful and moral. I am no longer sure that traditional Christian interpretations are the right ones, though. The very early Christian church was the kind of stuff we would all call heresy by the way- unusual weird stuff, and lots of sects that varied in weirdness.

Yes bitterness surely influenced by spiritual change. But it kickstarted me to start finding out whether or not I could trust the messengers of the faith and the bible itself, and in short, the answer has so far been no. But I’m not done yet.

Thanks again everyone.

I sure don’t want to convert anyone to disbelief

If you don’t mind me asking: why not? I got the impression that you feel as though you are better off without religion. Do you believe that some people are better off with it?