Fallen and Flawed

Very nice post Rob…

I would add though, that from my perspective, there are many churches in the US where both types co-exist. Where the gospel is preached but also where the love for the gospel wanes dangerously.

Most churches don’t become an apostate body overnight. It’s a long slow process of small compromises to the truth of the scripture, in the name of unity or peace, that all do damage to the clarity of the gospel message.

It’s sad to see it happen, and while it’s easy to see in retrospect, we must be on guard for such compromises everyday in our local body and in ourselves, lest we fall victim to the lies as well.

“Test all things against the scriptures, and trust in the truth of God’s word.”

Odi, your comment reminds me of Paul’s letters…to each church he had something good to say [some more than others], but always warned of slipping. That’s why we see repeated warnings to remain alert, sober. Good point.

Rob,
Thank you for the encouragement and offer. Here’s what I need from you.
Remind me how wonderful, glorious and beautiful, Jesus is. Tell me he’s even more than you say he is. Press me on this point: He’s better than anything this world has to offer. Follow it up with some of Romans 8:34 saying: It is He who died – more than that – was raised (even more than that) he is now interceding for us.

I’ll counsel you the same and pray that God opens our eyes and softens our hearts more and more to those truths contained in His Gospel.

A convicting post Rob, thank you. Remind me every day of my total depravity, that I can do nothing to save myself. Truly, that I am nothing apart from God. Pray that we constantly hear the Gospel and have the truth of the Gospel affixed to our hearts.

We easily become drunk on creation. We need constant reminder that nothing in creation is greater, more important, or more comforting than the Creator.

Matthew: Great line, “drunk on creation.” Love it.

Okay I thought Demian put the line “I’d like to thank Demian for the opportunity…..” in there himself but apparently the other guest posters actually meant it!

So let me say that I am so very grateful for getting to be a part of what God is doing through Demian’s blog. It was an unexpected honor to be given the chance. I hope I didn’t run any one off.

Odi: You are describing my parents church to a T. The congregation is 175 years old and even 35 years ago it was on solid ground. One minor deviation in course if not corrected will have you miles from your target eventually.

Matthew & Mark: Amen!

No Rob, they’re clapping for you. By the way, what I need from you: That I never lose sight of the holiness of God.

Rob, One of my friends counsels his friends to “tell me what I’d tell you.” Yes, I was saved in a church in which the elder board believed that a good Buddhist would be in Heaven same as a good Christian. The church ended up splitting.

Tough issue-good food for thought-thanks.

“America needs a big fat dose of spiritual clarity.”
Amen.
Here’s the question I’ve asked myself more than once recently…Is this all there is? Really, if this is what it is like to be filled with the Spirit, knowing an infinite God, Bride of Christ (as a church)…does it seem like a little bit underwhelming sometimes?
If this is all there is [luke warm church and powerless Christians], then it lends credence to my friend’s idea that he experienced all of God he wanted while in the Catholic church, and now he knows he doesn’t need God for day to day living.

No, there’s more than lukewarm.
But to get past lukewarm, we need the spiritual clarity you wrote of, Rob.

Well said, Daniel.

Hi Rob,

You asked what we need from you…

1. Re-write your post and make it even better. You’ve been given this arena to champion what Christians and the church need. Improve this and champion it again and again in more and more places. Too many gripe against the church and then move onto the next topic. Stay with this, please.

2. You wrote about the behavioral weakness of Christians and you admitted your own. You’ll have greater credibility and more impact if you’ll pull out all the stops and seriously confront these words of yours, “I love my cushy life and I don’t want to really give it away. I’m okay with who I am and don’t feel the weight of my sin.”

3. If you’re serious about this topic and about asking people what they need from you, then seek out people (if you haven’t already) who are much wiser than you to give you a intense workout in what we really need from you and to increase your passion and endurance for the topic.

Notes: I only write this because you asked. I don’t write it with any sense of criticism. You’ve done us all a great favor in this post. It speaks well of you to admit your weakness and it added to the post. I think you’ve loosened some of the nails in the casket of dead churches. Thanks, brother.

-Steve

Rob, thanks for this.

Every time you refer to the American Church, you might just as well have written, “Australian Church”.

I was raised in what might be called a fundamentalist church in Canada. After we were married we moved to a church that we thought was more embracing/tolerant. It was, and it appeared to preach the gospel of my youth, but perhaps this was the beginning of the slippery slope.

Then a business transfer took me to Australia and we joined the local Baptist church. That’s when it slow began to happen.

It reminds me of the frog analogy. If you drop a live frog into a pot of boiling water it will immediately jump out to save itself. But, if you place a frog in a pot of cold water and slowly heat the water to the boiling point, the frog will remain in the water, adapting to the changing temperature until it is eventually boiled to death.

We were like frogs in the water on top of the stove. Unaware of the changing temperature, we were being ‘cooked’ to death and didn’t even know it.

The biblical gospel was replaced with a half gospel. Only love, acceptance and forgiveness was being preached. It was the “Come as you are – stay as you are!” seducing message.

We praise God for cutting through our foggy thinking to make us aware how we and the rest of the congregants were being lulled into complacency. What was being offered as the good news was a watered down adulterated half gospel that was no gospel at all.

My heart goes out to the fine people that have characterized our departure as a ‘dummy-spit”. Perhaps it’s not to late for them – we are praying that God will wake them up before it is.

STEVE THANK YOU! This is exactly what I need. To the extent I disagree with you or find your comments unfairly critical is the extent that I have taken my eyes off Christ and set them on lesser things. Please keep pushing me toward Jesus.

DB thanks for the broader perspective. I wish the church could have wide spread prosperity and freedom and wide spread authentcity and usefulness to God but it seems like where it’s easy to be a Christian it’s easier to just go with the flow. I know the times in my life that have been the most sanctifying have involved difficulty. But it’s hard to wish that on yourself (hat tip to James W, haven’t forgot about you buddy).

Personally (though I do NOT live in America) I’d rather be in the church that is not afraid to face the inconvenient truths and offers spiritual encouragements than in the dogmatic church that does not allow for any dissent from its established, outdated theology. It’s simply not fitting to call a 2,000 year old book the “new” testament. If anything, I think we need a new reformation and a radical reinterpretation of Christianity. The rapid development of fundamentalist Christianity in Third World countries is a mixed blessing, and it generally appeals to people who have nothing or very little. Once they get more educated and less ignorant, their spirituality is bound to change too. Fundamentalist religion is based on rejection of anything modern, rational and scientific, and can only lead us into new dark ages.