Fallen and Flawed

This IS the juice in the jug. Love that. You’re best one. No wonder it came last.

I’m curious: why should we read the Bible this way? We should we read it Christocentrically? I think I know the answer, but I’m sure other people will ask the same question.

Thanks Jonathan!

Great ending to the series.
“You are not the hero of the story, no matter the story.” That’s a relief actually…

I was pretty disappointed and almost didn’t publish this post because of that. [Just kidding.]

Demian, I’d like to hear some responses to your question also.

Daniel, you are correct. It takes a lot of pressure off of us to live up to perfection. Instead, we get the blessing to trust in Christ’s perfection. That’s what I think to “be perfect” is pointing to.

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I can see why this one os your favorite, Jon!

I love how God works in themes in my life. This past Tuesday I had the chance to see an author, Bud McCord who has written a book (The Satisfying Life) and he pointed to letting Christ’s perfection come out thru us, as opposed to us attempting to produce on our own a Christian life by living by a long list of rules or principles, or relying on our knowledge, etc. My Bible study last night kinda went hand in hand with Tuesday.. and this post just kinda reinforces it for me… And all of it much needed after some events that transpired last week. Glory!

Awesome Mr. Shelton. [It's a Mister, right?]

No actually

Don’t worry about that btw.. no biggie

j shelton: you are touching on a very serious problem in the Church. If we rely on moralistic teaching and behavior modification alone, then we completely miss the point of the Gospel. Jesus didn’t come just to teach us values and principles to live by; we are dead without him and he restores us to life. The problem lies in us, and once we get this message, and get saved, we abandon it because we think it’s just for people to get saved. The next thing that happens is that we tend to turn our Bibles into self-help tools and formulas for getting the blessings of God. Instead, we need to remain in the Gospel message, because that very Gospel that saves the sinner is the very same Gospel that sanctifies the saved. We never leave it, because in it Christ is sufficient. We’re never perfect. Christ is.

Glad to see God moving in you!

Jonathan -What you said is what I’m trying to make stick in my mind. I was thinking yesterday that I know I can’t be saved apart from Christ.. That’s not hard for me to grasp. What’s hard to grasp is that Christ’s perfection lives in me. I’m running across the word “abundant” alot in this new book (Which is built a lot on John 15), and because of it’s negative use in the prosperity gospel, it’s a hangup for me. I understand this author is using it in the correct Biblical context, however. I know in my core that Christianity is not rules, principles, knowledge, etc. It is Jesus and Him alone. But fleshing out a life in which I’m plugged into the vine is so foreign to me. It’s foreign to everybody I guess because of the sin that separates us. As I’m reading this book, I’m struggling to understand 1. because I’m highly analytical and make complicated mountains out of simple molehills on the regular, and 2. because (I believe) God has placed something huge on my table to sink my teeth into that’s gonna totally nourish me, and satan is being a little fox trying to come along and snatch it out from under me.

Now how all this ties in with my life as it is now, is that recently someone very close called me out (for the umptheenth time) on my hypocrisy and attempts to hold others to my standards. I’ll admit I’m a hypocrite in a second which is good for starters, but doesn’t do anything to help those actions in my life. There’s got to be something more? I feel lots of changes have taken place in my life in the last 4 years since getting back into church and taking God seriously. But I’m extrememly impatient with my sanctification process and feel I can’t change quickly enough. I’m not sure what my motivations are behind all that though.. something to think about I guess.

The above post was me, In switching work pc’s this morning, the fields were prefilled from a time before when I had posted under Julie. Sorry about the confusion.

Julie/j shelton (hehe):

What’s catching my eye is your awareness of your own sin. Growth in Christ in a Gospel-centered way is the increasing awareness of one’s own sin and God’s holiness. Even when we feel as though we are becoming more aware of our sin and fallenness, and more aware of how separate that is from Christ, does not mean that we are growing away from him. Rather, it indicates the Gospel message in action in a believer’s heart. Now, I don’t know your situation and I’m not your judge, so I don’t want you to think I’m telling you everything is alright. Instead, this is just something I want to throw out there (to all of us) that as we grow we ought to be aware of MORE sin, not less. Furthermore, when the awareness of our own sin is repulsive to us, this is another great indicator. But if we are content in our present sin condition Satan is then best at work.

One more thought to throw out there: When Jesus said “If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple” (Luke 14:26) we must understand that one take away from this is that we are to hate ourselves. Our self—flesh—wants to have control of our life. Therefore, we must actively work against (hate) selfish desires and submit them (stewarding one’s life) unto Christ. If we are actively working against selfishness, we are then actively working toward Christ-likeness. And this is done largely through prayer. Our key word is REMEMBER. When we forget that we were actively working against (hating) God when Christ died for us, then we take control (hypocrisy). When we remember, those moments subside.

For what it’s worth.

No, thank you for the clarity, Ms. Julie! I mean j shelton…;-)

Thanks, Jonathan; an excellent reminder that Christ is woven throughout the entire OT.

I flew from Chicago to Vancouver a few years back with a Jewish Rabbi. I engaged him in conversation asking him the question, “Are you aware that Christ is seen through the Old Testament Scriptures?”

Unfortunately, he didn’t appreciate the comment – pity – I’ve always felt a kinship with Jews, after all, are we not the recipient of all God promised them?

Jonathan,

I not only thought I was David, I also made a slingshot to practice with!

Great post! The idea of viewing the Old Testament stories I love so much in such a Christ-inserted way is new and refreshing to me. It brings Christ’s own assertion that He is the fulfillment of the law and the prophets to life.

Thanks for the new insight!

Don B: interesting thing about your conversation there. I’m not sure about how much you are familiar with the Jews and Judaism. It can be very difficult for a Jew to talk to a Christian who just wants to talk about Jesus. One of the main problems is that we Christians don’t see the significance of their religion. We just insert Jesus into everything and expect them to “get” it. When in fact there are a host of things that they have held closely throughout history that they believe sustains their relationship with God. And it’s not like they are just “stubbern” (which might be the case with some), but it’s more along the lines that they have been the chosen people and their practices were in devotion to God. So there’s a lot of deep meaning into what they believe. Plus, they are waiting for the promise a little different than you and I are. So you have to talk to them about what kind of promise they are waiting for. Most Jews will probably admit to a Messianic “era” rather than a “person”. Just some food for thought.

Richard: that is hilarious! I used to think that I could throw a sling shot just like David also! Actually, it was kind of explained to me that way when I was a child.

It looks like you got the point of the message: Christ is all in all. Remember Ruth? Well, even though it’s a great story about being devoted to another person and serving them, that’s not the point of Ruth. The point is that someone, namely Jesus, worked on our behalf and served our needs, which was our inability to come directly to God. We are the bitter old woman that Ruth devoted herself to. Boaz is a “type” for the Father. Thus, as the bitter old woman, we inherit the blessings of Boaz through the work of Ruth (Jesus). Make sense?

I am thankful to God that you got some new insight through this post!

Thanks for your observation concerning my comment.

The brief reference to my three hour conversation with the Rabbi didn’t do justice to the content of our discussion, nor, perhaps, the tenor of his response.

For the reasons you explained, he did not accept my observation concerning the Messiah. But I think he appreciated that he was speaking to someone with a genuinely respected for his ‘culture/faith’. I never expected him to convert to Christianity on our conversation, so I was not arguing with him, just giving a reason for the hope that is within me 1 Peter 3:15. God can do the rest.

Never-the-less, I can’t help but feel a kinship with Jews, because in a spiritual sense, I’m a Jew as a result of all of God’s promises fulfilled in Christ that brought me into God family making me his child.

That is awesome Don. I would like to be more equipped to talk with people of the Jewish faith. However, I can only go so far before my knowledge runs out. But like you said, it’s not about that, it’s about what God can do.

I got to talk with a Jew the other day at a coffee shop and she totally lost me in conversation. I just continued to ask questions and she willingly answered them. I wished we could have gotten to the Messiah but we didn’t. I could tell that she was respectful of my Christian faith, as I was to her being Jewish. And it is very exiting for me to hear about a Jew who comes to Jesus, because their hope is in God but falsely. I guess I’ve never thought about it this way before, but it is sort of what you are mentioning—a “kinship”.

I see you are planting a new church, yes? I hope for good things to happen through you and the people God brings to Hills Bible Church!

Thanks, Jonathan!

While I’ve long understood the archetypes of Christ in stories like Ruth, what I got out of your study is the insight to insert Christ even further into the Old Testament than I had before, as you did in your Ephesians example.

I, probably unlike most Christians I know, tend to spend more time in the Old Testament than I do in the New. Odd, I know. So the concept of not just Christ-centric, but Christ-inserted Scripture is an exciting one, given that I believe it may shed new light on old familiar verses.

Again, thanks.

I’m going outside now to hurl a few stones.

Richard: make sure something lively is center of your aim! lol.