Fallen and Flawed

Phil. 1:18
But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is being preached.

Paul was talking about the Gospel not dogma. We believe Satan (Lucifer) was cast down from heaven. (because the Bible tells me so) “Be self-controlled and alert. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour.”

D. I’m with you, little if anything good will come of this. I wish they were debating the Gospel. The only problem (not really a problem) would be the name of Jesus would be said on TV more than on Sunday morning.

Grub: Beautiful response! That came swift and from the left side. Love it.

I can definitely see you logic, I just hope that you are wrong.

Maybe they’ll surprise us with something we didn’t consider. Who knows?

But as long as they get the gospel out there they will have done something good.

It’s sounds to me like neither has any real advantage worldly-evidence-wise

Tripp: I hope I’m wrong, too.

Demian said:
“Neither, I suspect have the chops of a scholar. I could be wrong.”

Wow. I’m blown away by assumption that only scholarly facts could influence the hearts of men.

Jesus didn’t quote scholars. In fact, more often than not, He bashed them. Jesus told stories. Powerful, impactful, fictional stories backed up by deep scriptural truths. Now I’m not out here to bash scholars, because I beleive that anyone who sets their minds on knowing Christ and Him crucified and backs up this knowledge with scripture has something to add to a debate about Truth.

Does that mean I think these “uneducated” Christians will win the debate? Maybe not in the world’s eyes. But Jesus doesn’t operate on the same criteria that the world operates on.

The Word of God says that Truth will set you free. I know evil exists, not only because the Bible tells me so, but because my life experience before Christ told me the same thing–over and over again. If telling stories about real-life senarios was good enough for Jesus, then it’s good enough for me.

Bring on the uneducated, the lame, the poor.

“But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. He chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are, so that no one may boast before him.” 1Cor 1:27-29

“The wolf will live with the lamb, the leopard will lie down with the goat, the calf and the lion and the yearling together; and a little child will lead them.” Is 11:6

” ‘In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions,
your old men will dream dreams…’ ” Acts 2:17

“…We know that we all possess knowledge. Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up. The man who thinks he knows something does not yet know as he ought to know. But the man who loves God is known by God. ” 1 Corinthians 8

Who knows what the almighty, all-powerful God will use to turn the hearts of men. IMHO, He could care less about debates, but He cares plenty for those who are listening to the debate and when their hardened hearts are suddenly opened.

Ang: I’m not making the assumption that only scholarly facts could influence the heart. This is a debate, and a debate suggests scholarship. And it’s not a debate about the existence of evil. It’s a debate about the existence of the devil. And I don’t think anyone should debate that. Really, how important is that?

Demian,
Many people, including many Christians, don’t believe Satan exists. The upside of such a debate is that there’s can’t be a debate about the devil without making God the focus of the discussion. I can’t see that as a waste of time, particularly on national television.

Good point, Richard. I hope that’s how it pans out.

At first I thought you were being alarmist with your claim that this debate was going to end up on the “useless” side. But then I thought about it, it really could.
What I am hoping for is a gospel presentation. What I am intrigued about is the potential for an actual debate with intelligent points of view and a lack of Kirk Cameron.

Don: “Lack of Kirk Cameron.” Love it. And I guess we’ll have to wait until the 26th to hear anything about the debate. I was hoping someone would leak something. You come across anything?

I took a quick glance around the web (thanks google reader!) and found no real leaks. The only thing I have heard is that the entire debate will be hosted and avail. for download later.

I don’t know if you all twitter or not, but if you search for #Satan on twitter, several people were “tweeting” quotes from the event while it was happening. Sounds like gospel truth was presented from the “tweets” I was reading.

Dude (or dudette), JC, good idea! Thanks.

It’s dude…and no problem! Glad to be of help.

For what it’s worth, I read somewhere (either on the Resurgence or Mars Hill blog) that Driscoll tried to get D.A. Carson to be his partner for the debate, but it didn’t happen. So there appeared to me at least an attempt at a “scholary” debate.

My fear is the editing process. Sure, Mark and Annie may have said some great things, but I know they’ll have to edit it for TV. Who knows what’ll get cut. I wonder if the full version will be available online…anyone know?

Don and JC: Thanks for your work! I do Twitter and followed the debate on Fri, but haven’t looked at those hashtags since. It seemed most tweets were about Chopra and Pearson making fools of themselves. Maybe Driscoll and Lobert just had to step out of the way. Yeah, Bert Erhman was originally scheduled to join Chopra, so Driscoll wanted Carson or Zacherias.

This is so cynical. A debate that even skims the surface of theological subjects and God is far more useful that most of the stuff that makes it onto TV. Why not praise God for that?

Also you said,
“It’s a debate about the existence of the devil. And I don’t think anyone should debate that. Really, how important is that?”

Debating the existence of the devil inevitably calls into question the validity of scripture (which says Satan does exist). I don’t see how anything could be more important.

@Abbey: I agree with you: I am cynical. I’m working on it. Pray for me. You’re also right that this sort of discussion could call into question the validity of scripture. Key word is “could.” That’s been my prayer ever since that the true point behind this debate was to roll out the Gospel, not debate the existence of Satan. And from what I hear, that’s what happened. I appreciate your thoughts and look forward to hearing from you again.

not a flop and Driscoll talked more about Jesus than Satan. Jesus won the debate…

Danny: You’re right…and I was impressed with the ABC editors.