Fallen and Flawed

Relating to #1: Romans 10:17 “So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.”
Actions ought to back up words, but our actions do not save anyone or bring faith. Only hearing brings faith.
Great post Demian.

I think you’ve covered them all. I think I’ve been guilty of them all, too.

I have read (I do not remember where) that while Assisi is attributed with that saying, he may not have actually said it. I often wonder if it is an excuse someone wrote in the latter 20th century and blamed on a monk.

I’ve thought about the Assisi quote quite a bit before – and have even fully endorsed it. It seems as though in the past few years, though, I have really gravitated away from using it, because while it sounds good, it is really insufficient.

Another possible reason: we don’t love the gospel like we make people think.

Sometimes I’m tempted to believe that sharing my faith is useless because so many people don’t care. And when I listen to that I start ticking off all the excuses you’ve listed.

I won’t lie. Sometimes I fail. But God is showing me that He is greater than all my failures, greater than all my fears. He fills me with wonder and awe. How awesome is God! He actually cares to use us just as we are!

In your version of Christianity, how is the gospel clearly articulated on the issue of salvation? Share your faith.. with me.. right now. What do I do to become saved and avoid hell?

My take away from the Assisi quote is that I should live and act in such a way that demonstrates my faith. I don’t think he’s saying that I should put on a pantomime act and only resort to the spoken word when it’s clear the audience isn’t getting the message.

Thanks for the post Demian, it’s interesting that they often come at the “right” time.

I agree with Matthew above – I took “Preach the Gospel at all times and when necessary, use words” to mean our conduct and our lives should be evidence of the Gospel at work.

When your list makes me feel guilty (as this one does) you have a good list. Thanks for this reminder.

We must learn that sharing our faith is not a separate activity from the rest of our lives, but an integral factor in an inseperable whole. The life of the Christian is not compartmentalized, but can only be a homogenous journey such as Bunyan’s Pilgrim undertook. With that in mind, a few observations on Demian’s six points:

1. Matt.5:16 clearly distinguishes between “your light” and “your good works.” So, then, if our light is NOT our good works, what IS our light? In John 8:12 Jesus said, I am the light of the world.” It is our telling of Jesus (as Daniel has stated in the first comment, above) which proclaims salvation and illuminates our acts of grace. [In case of conflict, better to quote Jesus than Assisi]

2. Their REAL need is spiritual life via the new birth. We can feed them all day and still see them off to hell with a full stomach.

3. We ARE weird! Adam turned the world upside-down. Christians are turning it rightside-up which, to the unregenerate SEEMS upside-down (Acts 17:6). Face it: unless you deny your Lord, they’re going to find you weird.

4. “Busy” is tricky. We are supposed to be busy; to be “about our Father’s business” as Jesus was. There’s the trick, isn’t it? Do we use our busy-ness as an excuse for NOT doing our Father’s will, or are we busy obeying Him? If the latter, we will surely be telling others (the RIGHT others) about Him at the right times.

5. How much is enough? Will we, can we, ever know enough about our Lord? Well, yes and no. We will never know it all (at least not in this life). But if our heart’s quest is to know Him as Paul’s was (Phil.3:8-10), we will certainly know enough for the task at hand, if just in knowing that He will provide for our every need.

6. Along with studying to know Christ to the fullest that we may and examining our faith, let us be exercised to call upon Him at all times to help our unbelief and to give us the heart to cry “Not my will but Yours be done.”

When I was a new believer, I was told a story of four seminary students. It was offered as a true event, but it has been so many years ago that I don’t recall who the principal character was. At any rate, these four seminarians were enjoying a brief period of “down time” by shooting billiards in the rec room of their dorm. Their conversation came around to discussing what they would do if they knew the Lord would call them home in 24 hours from that moment. One said he would immediately attempt to contact every member of his family who did not know Christ and plead with them to turn to Him. Another claimed he would go to the streets to preach the glorious gospel of Christ until his last breath in hope that some would be saved. The third avowed he would seek out everyone he had ever wronged and attempt to make amends in order that he might not be ashamed at his Lord’s appearing. They all waited to hear from the fourth.

Finally, when pressed, he said, “I would finish this game of billiards.” You see, this uncommon young man had not been putting off his obedience to His Lord. He had learned the wisdom of keeping short accounts with God. He had made a practice of doing what he was supposed to do when he was supposed to be doing it, and he was not behind in his compliance with God’s will for him.

We are not to witness all the time, nor play billiards all the time, but we are to be instant in season and out of season, ready always. There is a time for everything under the sun, and our goal must be to know our God closely enough to recognize the schedule He lays out for us, and to trust Him for the wherewithal to keep it.

I share this with you not as one who has arrived, but who seeks to arrive and who humbly asks your prayers for me to that end.

I work with a campus ministry organization. I love discipling men and teaching them to how to share the gospel. I will use this with them. It will be good to have someone else hit on the same things as I tell them. I am guilty of many of the same excuses myself. I pray that God will take away all our excuses. I pray that we will all fall so in love with Jesus and experience the gospel so fully in our lives that we can’t help but share it with others!

I’m glad I could help, Joe.

Al: Wow. What an illustration to drive your point home. Indeed, I need to do a better job of keeping a short account with God. And thank you for your wonderful expansions on the post.

Matthew and Justice: I agree that Assisi didn’t mean to hide behind your acts to avoid sharing your faith–if he even said it at all. And like Al said, better to quote Jesus than Assisi.

Kimberly: This is a good place to start…How to Become a Christian. And if you want to talk, email me.

I read your post on how to become a Christian, and I’m trying to boil down your theory to the one instant where you go from bound-for-torture to bound-for-paradise. It seems that since there are no magic words, and the attitude of your heart is what matters, then a general sense of sorrow for the wrong things you do and a willingness to do better is all that is required for salvation. Does one need to mention the word Jesus? According to this theory, most people will go to heaven despite the details about what they name their deity, or their theory of what powers that deity possesses. I’m just curious, when you overcome your 6 excuses for not sharing the faith, what exactly is it that you tell people they need to do?

Kimberly, Christ. Christ is the only reason anyone will go to heaven. Who you give your allegiance to matters. Immensely. And it’s Christ.

I’m curious: Are you seriously interested? Or pulling my leg?

I’m not pulling your leg. I find the design argument for creation convincing, and so now I am curious about spirituality. I’m curious if Christianity is defined coherently. What is that defining moment when one goes from non-Christian to Christian? What are the actual minimum requirements for passage to heaven in this theory? Do you give your allegiance by simply asserting that you give your allegiance? If you must prove your allegiance with certain actions, what are the necessary actions?

Kimberly, thanks for clarifying. I just wanted to make sure I knew where you were standing.

Listen, here’s my suggestion to you. If you have a Bible, open it and read John. [If you don't have a Bible, email me via Contact page and I'll send you a Bible.]

Also, you can explore my salvation story and some questions to ask about being a Christian.

The minimum requirement is confessing and believing you are a person who’s broken God’s law and you deserve punishment for breaking that law and that it’s only through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ that you can escape the punishment that you deserve. This would also count as a necessary action.

Recognizing that you are a wicked person in need of salvation is a great place to start. If you don’t think that’s you, then I challenge you to take this little test.

Kimberly, open your Bible and read John. But before you start, ask God to reveal himself to you.

It’s been good talking to you.

[...] 6 Excuses We Use to Avoid Sharing Our Faith [...]

[...] From Fallen & Flawed: [...]

Yeah, I’ve read the bible. I’m just interested in your particular theory of what you actually do (or say) to make that crossover from torture to paradise. The bible says things like “whoever believes in him will not perish…” That can be interpreted infinitely many ways. You talk about “where to start” in the salvation process, but I want the essential details. If someone had 5 minutes to live, what do you think they should do? Again, what are the minimum requirements? Is it a complex process that cannot be completed in 5 minutes? Can it not be explained clearly in words?

Your salvation story is interesting. Have you ever wondered what you would have done in the opposite situation where your wife threatened divorce unless you renounced Christianity and rejected any religion that is based on animal and human sacrifice to appease a deity?

Thanks for engaging in conversation with me.

Hey Kimberly, I just finished reading a book and thought of you the whole time. It’s called Finally Alive by John Piper. It’s a 200 page treatise on what it means to be born again–from why we need to be born again to actual evidences of the new birth.

It answers a lot of the questions you’re asking.

You can download it free. I share it not because I want to avoid your questions, but merely to suggest–especially if you’re a speed reader–you can lower your learning curve in four or five hours.

But I’m super happy to answer any questions, too. In fact, I’m going to devote the next several Tuesdays to the study of the new birth, using Piper’s book as a spring board.

And just so you know, this is not my particular theory. It’s Jesus’. It’s Paul’s. It’s the Bible’s.

You know, you’re question about my wife threatening divorce unless I rejected Christianity is an interesting question. If my wife did in fact suggest that now, I’d have to say I wouldn’t budge. Not to be stubborn, but I simply no better. I’d cling to my faith. Can’t say I’d do that if I was involved in a religion based on animal sacrifice.

One thing that’s near impossible to communicate about being born again is the fact of the death of the old person you were and the birth of the new. It’s not like an accumulated amount of arguments finally pushes you over the edge, and you stop resisting and you embrace the truth that the earth revolves around the sun and not vice versa.

New birth is a work of God in which you see the beauty of Christ, you hear the glorious truth wrapped up in the gospel and that dead, stony, stubborn heart is soften to things of God. So you go from being blind, deaf and unfeeling to the spiritual things of Christ and God to seeing, hearing and feeling.

When the Bible talks about being raised from the dead, that’s a clue to what the new birth is like. When the Bible talks about a blind person seeing, that’s another clue.

The drawback to this reality is that you get frustrated when people want to say “I was a Christian before” when they mean it to be a parallel statement to “I was a Kappa Kappa Gamma.”

New birth is not something that you inspect, shop for or decide on your own. Being born again is a selection process in which you don’t get to choose [a lot like our own physical births, right?]. God chooses. Your part in that is you can pray and ask God to be chosen. You can ask God to give you eyes to see, ears to hear and a new heart. You just need to humble yourself under the gracious hand of God.

I appreciate talking to you, too.

Thanks Demian, I appreciate your poetic description of what you might call spiritual experience. It reminds me of the deep and fulfilling sensation I experience when reading abstract algebra, or the proof of newton’s gravitational shell theorem, or when I listen to Brahms’ violin concerto. However, you are describing the effects felt after being saved, not the process of being saved. Perhaps it does take a 200 page treatise to describe, and I will read that. Still, I don’t think you think that one must read that treatise to become born again. You speak of the theory not being yours, but rather Jesus’, Paul’s, the bible’s. What is this theory? From your “how to become a Christian” post, I gathered that it boils down to having a good attitude in your heart (and when you say “heart”, surely you mean “mind”, since if the actual heart matters, then having a heart transplant would be a problem indeed). So anyone who has a good attitude (feels sorry for being bad, wants forgiveness for their bad actions) is saved?

I have infinite patience, so I’ll just ask again.
If someone had five minutes to live, what should they do to go to heaven instead of hell? What is it you tell someone on the street when you are hoping that they will be saved? Or can it in fact not be communicated at all – aside from poetic descriptions of the ecstatic feeling one gets when one somehow figures it out for oneself?

Also, you told me about what you would do, today, if your wife wanted you to abandon christianity, but my question was: what would you have done had that original divorce threat entailed that you must abandon christianity? I ask because the near-divorce seems to have contributed a lot to your conversion process.

Kimberly, not sure why you don’t think I answered that question. I understood what you were asking. Bottom line, yes, the threat contributed to my conversion. No doubt about that. It doesn’t work in reverse, though.

You describe elation. Not conversion. Not inner transformation where things you once embraced and enjoyed–lying, deceiving, lusting, hating, hording, etc–make you want to vomit. And grieve you when you do those things again.

There is genuine joy. But that’s a by-product. A by-product when you recognize the danger you were in when rejecting God. When you realize that you’ve sinned against a holy and just God and you deserve punishment. And that he was merciful and gracious to save you from that. Simply because of his kindness.

Undeserved grace and mercy in the face of gargantuan pain give people joy.

Pray. That’s what the person needs to do. Look at the thief on the cross. He recognized Christ as the son of God. The intended Messiah. The world’s savior who came to rescue us from sin. But here’s the key–he was broken, contrite and lowly. He recognized he needed a Savior. His heart truly was humbled. Foxhole prayers are dangerous–a confession doesn’t save someone. Only Christ saves a person. And he saves a person by allowing him to see the beauty of Christ…and in response that person repents. Confesses. And embraces Jesus.

Pray that God will cause you to see the beauty of Christ. Pray that God will cause you to hear the beauty of the Gospel. And pray that God will allow you to respond to that call. That’s what I’d tell the person on the street. And that’s what I’m telling you to do, too.

Thanks for tolerating me.

Haha, it’s not a matter of tolerating you. I enjoy hearing about religious beliefs. That’s why I’m infesting your blog.

It occurred to me how interesting it would be to try to pinpoint what it is religious people think the actual process of procuring their eternal reward is. This is a response to my interest in the universe by design theory. This of course is a far cry from accepting that this deity likes the smell of dead, burning goats and sheep.

I think I’m starting to understand your theory, although it is still quite vague to me. So far, I gather that what one does to be saved, is to form thoughts in one’s head about wanting to see the beauty of Christ and the Gospel, to then assume that there is a deity who can decode those neurons firing in my brain the same way a human can decode soundwaves of words. One also must mentally ask the deity (God? Yahweh? Jehovah? does he care what you call him?) that one might be allowed to respond, assuming that one cannot respond on one’s own. (respond to what exactly?) At this point, he may or may not show you his beauty. If he does, then you go from torture-bound to paradise bound. However, the confession and prayers (thoughts) are not enough (only Christ can save someone, if he chooses to).

You see I am not being sarcastic, I’m just trying to put it in plain words without the poetry. If you have the stamina, help me refine the theory! Again, I’m not interested in the wonderful feeling after the conversion, I’m just trying to pinpoint the process of avoiding torture and procuring paradise.

Thanks for clarifying about your conversion and your wife. I wonder how certain you can be that the reverse would have been impossible. Hehe, I’ll bet I could get my husband to plunge headlong into some religion if I could convince him I was dead serious. The power of love and the fear of loss of that attachment is downright terrifyingly strong.

Demian -

Next to your post on memorization strategies, this might be my favorite post on F&F. I love it when you get practical.

Nate

Thanks Nathan. It’s a balance, cause at times I want to be immediately practical all the time…but what’s more important…being eternally helpful?

Like I said: balance.

Kimberly, I’ve no doubt about the power of love, attraction and emotions. And I do think, yeah, you could prolly get your husband to do something by manipulating him. :-0

But let me be clear here: What I’m talking about is the God of the universe–all powerful–drawing me to him.

Yet, when we are awakened [whether that occurs via an emotional catastrophe or some low-grade voice in one's head while driving] we see that beauty. That would be a good time to ask for forgiveness. To repent of our sins. Pray. Whisper it. Shout it. Doesn’t matter. It’s what occurs in your heart.

You know, I think you might enjoy Augustine’s Confessions. Read it? He explains his conversion and the struggle it took to get their.

Here’s one question I can’t answer for you: The spiritual mechanics behind conversion. What God sees, how God does it, the neurons firing, etc.

Truth is, that might be interesting…but it’s not important. You’re approaching this with fascination. Which is good. But you’ll really start making progress when you do so in humility, to understand it on his terms.

I’ve said this before: Pick up the Bible and read John. If you’re sincerely searching for God, you’ll find him there. That’s easy to understand.

Once that’s out of the way, then you can iron out the minor kinks that all Christians struggle with.

Kimberly, Demian has given you some excellent reading suggestions, both biblical and supplementary. But there is a fundamental that you must address in order for any reading or conversation to benefit you if your quest is to find or to know God. The Bible says that without faith it is impossible to please Him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that He exists and that He rewards those who seek Him (Heb.11:6). I’ll try to break down that statement for you:

[1] “Without faith” is the natural state of humanity ever since the first sin was committed against God by humanity, bringing the entire human race under God’s curse. The Bible makes two vital declarations about faith. It defines faith as being both the substance and the evidence of things which exist beyond the present detectibility of human senses (Heb.11:1), and it explains that the way by which people obtain faith is through hearing the Word of God (Rom.10:17).

[2] Notice that the primary issue of having and exercising (i.e. not being without faith) faith is NOT finding God, or knowing God, or understanding God, but pleasing God. This is the crucial matter: the dividing point between those who want to “size up” God, to test the “theory” of God, to explain (or debunk) the “concept” of God as a being, a force, an entity, a person, or whatever else may come to mind, and those who acknowledge God’s existence and divine Personhood, His right as Creator of all to rule over all, and who want to be involved in God’s occupation of His rightful place as Lord of all.

[3] To align oneself with God necessitates “drawing near to” Him, which cannot be done without possessing and exercising faith, because

[4] to do so one “must believe that He exists and that He rewards those who seek Him.”

To summarize the above four points, salvation of sinners, which comes only by being born again through the Holy Spirit’s application of God’s Word to the sinner’s mind and heart (another discussion entirely), is NOT about satisfying the sinner’s desire or curiosity, but is about pleasing God. The sinner’s salvation is a vital part of God’s pleasure but, the sinner’s satisfaction is incidental to God’s, and a by-product of the grand scheme of all creation.

Again, I refer you to Demian’s good advice:

Pray. That’s what the person needs to do. Look at the thief on the cross. He recognized Christ as the son of God. The intended Messiah. The world’s savior who came to rescue us from sin. But here’s the key–he was broken, contrite and lowly. He recognized he needed a Savior. His heart truly was humbled.

Don’t try to figure out God and how He works, but humble yourself before Him as before the mightiest and most awesome of all beings. Ask for His mercy and help.

Praying you will do so, and that He will abundantly provide for you,
al