Fallen and Flawed

[...] Fallen and Flawed has a beginner’s guide to New Calvinism. Read it, too, if you’ve got seven minutes to [...]

“In truth, these really aren’t Calvin’s teachings. He’s simply articulated what the Bible already says.”

Which is, of course, what everyone says about their positions — including Arminians, Pelagians, Arians, and docetists.

Chris: Great point.

The concept of making a huge impact in the community (and the nation) through the power of God’s words, have always been the struggle for me. God has always drawn clear lines for our conduct. However, living in this ever increasingly “neutral” (neutered?) world, us Christian constantly give up on God’s hard line commands. Do we still adopt the old ways, or get with the times? Were they right a long time ago, or are we more righteous now?

Who’s to decide? Always go back to the word of God, is what I say.

Rudy, I’m with you: It is a struggle. I get get swept away at times with the culture or with the old reformed habits, the pendulum always swinging way out of whack. I think for only five minutes out of the year I’m totally balanced. Thank God for having mercy on me and for His Spirit which pulls me back in line when I start to veer off course. Thank you for the Bible, too. What a precious gift. I always appreciate your thoughts, Rudy.

Well balanced and neutral pointed post, but where do you stand on the subject of Calvinism?

Christian: I’d say I uphold the fundamentals, like what you see in TULIP. What about you?

in response to Chris b

Which is, of course, what everyone says about their positions — including Arminians, Pelagians, Arians, and docetists.

in reality the calvinist theory is more logical and biblically related than most. the question on how to balance ones christianity is then to be let for Gods sovereign power otherwise we are wasting our time

[...] New Calvinism: A Beginners Guideby Demian Farnworth [...]

[...] New Calvinism: A Beginner’s Guide [...]

[...] …John Calvin returns. [...]

Good summary. Personally, I have some reservations about the way the “L” is usually understood and expressed.

Congrats on your Google ranking! That’s awesome.

I was part of the reemergence of Calvinism in the SBC in the 1980’s – were we the proto Calvinists of that era? We paved the way when Southern where Al Mohler leads was completely different than it is today.

But the barebones Calvinism of that day left me empty still – like the emptiness you describe that is drawing people to the Neo Calvinsim in the first place.

I came to read Calvin and the Reformation more closely and in some ways I didn’t recognize Calvin from the way he’d been portrayed.

He was richer and more textured than the caricatures.

I’m not saying I’ve been there, done that and got the T Shirt, but I do identify with where you’re at and where I think you might be one day.

Enjoy the ride!

Thank you, Chuck. I appreciate the feedback, and the prayers. I look forward to talking with you more in the future.

What do you do with the fact Calvin was a murderer, he did have people burned at the stake?
Do you discuss the theology that permits this and then set it aside or do simply leave it in place?
Rev. Gregory Wilson

Hi Rev. Wilson…when you say “the fact Calvin was a murderer” what do you mean by that? Might help me answer your question. Thanks for stopping by.

Recently, I made a blog post that listed the blogs, pastors and radio shows I like. Someone asked me in the comments: Are you a Calvinist?

Apparently, every item on my list of Likes was.

So I started to read about the differences, and I am not sure I can be categorized. Which may have something to do with not being able to grasp the full understanding of each camp. Which may have something to do with all that pot back in high school.

But whatever it means to be a Calvinist, you guys sure have a lot things that beg an emphatic fist pump.

(I won’t be commenting every five minutes every day for the rest of your blog live – don’t worry)

Jeney, the term makes me a bit uncomfortable for the same reasons denominational labels do…I want most notably to be known as a Christ follower–not a Calvinist or Methodist.

But we humans love categories.

By the way, your robust comment fit…love it…I’m trying to think of some fitting reward…stay tuned.

I use the term in the most non-serious tone possible. If I tried to figure out what category I fit into, I’d have to stop following God (and possibly stop eating) and I’d probably still not have enough time to dedicate to the search.

I do tend to get caught up in things like that (the time I’ve spent today looking up Calvinism has been alarming!), so I try to come back down to earth frequently and remind myself that I need to keep the main thing the main thing.

Most of my commenting will come in fierce and overwhelming force (much like a tidal wave or the B.O. from the guy next to you on the bus), or not at all as I have to take the free time when I can get it. But when I get that rare block of free time, I am what you might call, “Prolific”.

Or, “Obnoxious”.

Oh, snap. I got messed up with my comments, since I’ve left them in…maybe all of your posts.

I *thought* you were referring to “Holy Roller” as the term that made you uncomfortable.

Oops.

Clearly, I was wrong.

I do not hear anything about Calvin’s burning Unitarians at the stake. For us Unitarians Calvin’s most famous words are,”use green wood”, when he had Michael Servetus burnt at the stake. Michael Servetus one of the founders of our religion. If the capacity to murder people is in the theolgy, which it is, ought that not be identified before carrying that theology into the future or do you think people are good enough never to torture peopole again like Calvin did?
rev. Gregory Wilson

Hi Gregory,

You make it sound like Calvin was the master mind behind Servetus’ execution. How’d you come to that conclusion?

I read history.

Both Calvinist and followers of Luther killed people that did believe the doctrine or belief systems they set forth as true. Some of the beliefs from the Catholics were different but the consequences for not agreeing was the same. Are you a where of the rules of Geneva that Calvin implemented?

No sir, don’t know which ones you are referring, too.

Btw, I read history, too, but coming away with a different POV. You must be reading more than me. *winks*

The brutality of that age is well documented. In Roland H. Bainton, The reformation of the Sixteenth Century on pages 115 – 122 you can get a glimsp. I must say it was a turbulent time.
However there where Christian communities that did kill others for not believing a particular interpretation of the scriptures. I choice to follow those lines of thinking that promoted kindness and peace from the beginning of their movement . You can see in the Calvinist movement of today a restrictiveness and a movement to legislate morality. I like the words of Bernard Meland.
This contrast may be stated as the difference between the creative and the controlled way of life; between the good life sought though the ideal of art, and the goodness of life achieved through moral effort. Art is concerned with creating life; morality with controlling it. Art impels men to seek new orders of value and to synthesize them in an expression of unity; morality tends to preserve established orders of value and to resist possible new syntheses that threaten to impair existent values. Morality strives to make the world safe to live in. Art seeks to make it worth living in. Art is experimental. Morality is conservative. Art leads toward a creative and venturesome way of living; morality toward a controlled mode of existence. (1:53)

Freedom verses controlled and forced goodness by punishment. I trust the holy spirits guidance far greater than man’s law to make us conform to god’s will.

you might read this.

Church History, June 2006 by Scott M. Manetsch

Demian Farnworth choose a religious history that promotes kindness and does not have violent coercion to get people to believe as part of its nature to place yourself. Just look at when a particular group of people have had political power and you will see their true nature. And Calvinists do not far well.
I wish you well in your spiritual walk. Rev. Gregory Wilson

Thanks Mr. Wilson. I appreciate the encouragement.

And just so you know, your last two comments fell through the cracks. I hope to get some time to work through them.

Thank you for your kindness.

[...] this shouldn’t surprise us either. We are in the age of new Calvinism and its patrons are simply doing their [...]

As far as the servetus issue is concerned I don’t think Calvin is alone…Luther was atleast responsible in part for the holocaust, since he not only inspired Hitler, but also influenced the german view of jews through his violently vulgar book “Jews and their Lies”…Zwingli is also purported to play a role in the drowning of some anabaptists…Jonathan edwards wrote a sermon in defense of slavery…the dutch reformed church was a cruel spectator to the apartheid movement…the Southern baptists have a history founded on racism…Top christian leaders signed a letter addressed to Pres. Bush to go ahead with the Iraq war. Bill bright,one of the leaders, in the letter argued from a “Just war” theological perspective. Ironically, the war was not only a disaster but was actually “unjust” since a decision for the war took place without any conclusive evidence of WMD’s.

…and I guess the list goes on and on!

May God save the church!

Vish, yes, the list could go on! to include you and me and Gregory and…

And indicator that we actually do need a savior, wouldn’t you a gree?

I have been hearing alot of harsh statements from the reformed/Calvinistic community about the “new” Calvinism over the last year. Seems like its pretty much 3 issues the “traditional” reformed, is complaining about this “new”Calvinism.

1)that they not “truly” reformed cause they don’t follow the “traditional” a Presbyterian/reformed church government. Well lets see the particular baptists did not have “reformed” church government. They were just as bit as Calvinistic as the Presbyterians and congregationalists. Either do the congregationalists, but one would be hard pressed to say that Johnathon Edwards was not Calvinist.

2)The new Calvinism is not truly “Reformed” cause they may not in some churches follow the “traditional” reformed confessions like the Westminister Standards or Three Forms of Unity or neither of London Baptist confessions. This is totally not true. I have seen some “independent/bible” type churches confessions of faith over the years and their pretty calvinistic

3)that these new Calvinists are too “spirit-filled”,”fruits of the spirit”. Well im sure the first Great Awakening was that way and it was very Calvinistic

I guess my point is just cause a church or a movement is not your “type” of Calvinism. That doesn’t mean they are not true blue Calvinists. I mean if u follow the 5 points”Tulip” in your theology, you are considered Calvinist.

Thanks Brian.