Fallen and Flawed

Hey Demian…

Love the post and with all love in our Savior and and as a fellow pilgrim, I disagree with just one point in love.

As a reforming legalist, I struggle with basing my love from God with how little or how much I spend in prayer and bible reading. I have a tendency to feel as though if I did not pray for x amount of time in a day, I have not “earned” my points with God that day.

You said we should pray for “long periods of time” in our closet. Though I do agree to a point, people like me see that as do or else.

Personally, I am going through a terrible dark night of the soul and eeking out any prayer for me right now is a tremendous accomplishment.

I suppose what I am trying to say is that our Father knows our frame, He knows we are weak and pitiful. He takes whatever prayer that comes out of this frame of mine and sees it as a lovely sacrifice…having to live up to men’s standards of what my prayer life should be is at times too much for me to bear.

I hope you will see I am sincerely disagreeing in love.

Thanks!

Matthew

Matthew, first off, thank you for being so open and honest. I am so sorry to hear about your struggle. Do know that I promise to pray for you. And feel free to email me any time you would want to share something like this again. I find great comfort knowing there are people praying for me. I imagine you do, too.
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Regarding your concern about potential legalism…I think you and I are on the same page. In the section on the Bible I wrote, “It’s not a law you must obey with blind duty.” That could be said for all these elements.
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However, you pointed out something that I could have spent more time on: “our Father knows our frame, He knows we are weak and pitiful.”
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Bottom line, how much we read, pray, fellowship and witness is contingent on our circumstances. And I in know way meant that relentless pursuit of these steps got us greater favor with God. Or the reverse, neglecting these steps and we threaten to disappoint God.
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I apologize if I muddied the lines between our standing with God and spiritual growth. My emphasis was on growing as Christians. And I realize that at times it takes everything to simply keep our head above the water.
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Matthew, I appreciate your sincerity and willingness to reach out. Even if in disagreement. That means a lot to me. You have my support. And I look forward to hearing from you again.

It truly is wonderful indeed that we as a body can disagree with such grace.

Thank you again for not only such a great post, but for your insights and wisdom found throughout your posts. I do hope someday we can share a cup of coffee.

Speaking for myself, I seem to be at a point in my walk where I say with Peter, “depart from me, for I am a sinful man.” Seeing and living with my own sin seems to be pushing me away from our Lord rather than leading me towards. I know this is wrong, but I simply must be honest. Times of prayer for me have become such that I seem to be wallowing in my own sin rather than reaching out to my Father.

I absolutely KNOW this is wrong. I know He is my great high Priest now making intercession for me, but I still struggle with coming to Him. 3 minutes of prayer seems to be a lifetime to me now.

I only meant to convey that for folks like me, anytime in prayer is good. I do humbly apologize if I was too harsh or too hair triggered.

Such goes the Kings highway….

I read a few of Schaeffer’s books a few years ago, and I have great respect for him and his methods. I liked the fact that he spent most of his research effort travelling and spending time talking with as many different people as he could, rather than just speculating from an ivory tower about things that are supposed to be about real, everyday human beings.
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If I were a philosopher or anthropologist (a dream job if you ask me!), I think I’d do the same.

Comments on the four points: Because we live in a fast-paced, self-gratifying, ratrace society, these disciplines don’t come easily to many of us. Let me suggest some add-on modifications:
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Read the Bible: In addition to “slowly” and “carefully,” let me suggest “unconstrainedly” as a suitable adjective for spending time in the Word. This activity is an unparalleled privilege which will never seem so if we feel we have to do it. Neither the time spent nor the ground covered will give the measure of usefulness, but only the product: the fruit borne, and that as judged by our Lord Christ, not by men, and least of all by ourselves. Trust Him!
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Learn to Communicate with God: By definition, prayer IS communicating with God. I have not read or heard a great deal of Schaeffer’s work, but I can’t recall him or any other great man of God saying that God communicates with us through prayer. God speaks to us through the Scriptures. We may or may not be enlightened by the Holy Spirit as we pray, but if we are it will only be in clear light of the Bible’s teaching. To expect more is folly and dangerous.
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Also, we must understand the relativity of time to folks’ different backgrounds and personalities. Someone with a background like Matthew’s or mine may view all time constraints as chains of bondage. Two, three, or five minutes can seem like an eternity, and the weight of concern over such feelings can rob one’s prayers of all meaning. It is more the nature of one’s prayer that determines its efficacy, rather than the stopwatch. To this end I highly recommend a new book, A Praying Life, by Paul E Miller http://www.wtsbooks.com/product-exec/product_id/6281 which will not disappoint…
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Fellowship with Bible Believers: By their fruits you will know them… Church people can seem ever so sincere, can talk a good show, can offer a vast array of “Bible-based” activities, but still be pulling you in the wrong direction, as Demian suggests. How can you know? There is only one Gospel; that Jesus came into the world to save sinners. The whole of God’s purpose for all the ages is focused upon His Son. If a church, a group, or an individual tries to draw you toward a program of Jesus-plus-(anything else, whether it is an experience, a doctrine, a philosophy, whatever!), it is eccentric [i.e. off-center or plural-centered]. Get away from it. Hear Jesus attested by His Father to on the mount of His transfiguration: “THIS is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased. Hear HIM!”
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Share Your Faith: “It puts you at risk…” What is at risk here is a long list of transitory things that must eventually be shrugged off anyway: feelings mainly, of pride, security, comfort, control, acceptance, convenience, admiration, etc. In Christ, and nowhere else, your soul is eternally safe– there is NO risk! When you begin to believe and accept this reality you have entered into the arena of faith, which is what we are to share. Not merely theology, doctrine, knowledge, understanding or even wisdom as the world may deem such things, but our FAITH! In this we are more greatly privileged than even the angels!

Thanks Al…I too just read A Praying Life and it’s really rocked my boat. It’s been a wonderful breath of fresh air to the legalisim that seems to invade so much of teaching on prayer…do this this way for this long or you’re a bum stuff. I despise that garbage with a passion and only heaps a burden onto shoulders which can barely stand the weight of a roll of quarters…

I too highly recommend this book to all to recover the depth and purpose of prayer.

Al, Thank you for the recommendation on the book. Also, thank you for your expansion on each element. I always appreciate that. Regarding God talking to us, I know Schaeffer means first through the Bible, then the HS. And I think he’d agree with you, too: Be cautious, for we often confuse feelings for the leading of God. [By the way, not sure if you read my story, but I was one of those Jesus-plus Christians for ten years...more like, Demian plus jesus, with a little J. Sad.]
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Matthew, thank you for being vulnerable. I appreciate your point of view. This allows other Christians to nurture you in prayer. After two recommendations, I’m definitely going after that book…and I’m looking forward to that cup of coffee, friend.
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James: I appreciate Schaeffer for the same reasons. Schaeffer admitted, too, that his conviction in Christianity deepened through this experience…something you can’t get in an ivory tower. In fact, it’s my own inquisitiveness that motivated me to launch the 10 Questions series. And I’ve learned so much about others I used to keep at an arms length…as well as so much about my own faith. Call it my inner anthropologist working with the inner Christian philosopher.

Matthew,
I feel your pain. In fact, I’m living your pain. But I wanted to share this thought with you that has helped me.
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What you’re going through now is actually part of God’s plan for you. It hard to see from this side of the fence, but it’s true. Take heart. God sees the end game.
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You were “predestined to be conformed to the likeness of His son.” That’s how He views you now.
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But I don’t need to tell you that it often hurts like hell along the way.
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Also know that you’re not alone. Those of us reading this blog are praying right alongside you.

Wow…much appreciated Richard. I’m very humbled.

It’s been about 4 years now for me…only about a year and a half since I first became a believer. I know I have to go through this, but it’s nice to know there have been others throughout the ages of the church that have written so much to help us along the path. Right now, Pilgrims Progress has been particularly ministering to me in ways it hasn’t done before. Also been reading Octavius Winslow…so much comfort in this mans work.

Again, all prayers are much coveted on my end. Were it not for His sovereignty in this, I would have gone mad years ago.

Matthew, I’m not quite sure how to interpret your statement:

It’s been about 4 years now for me…only about a year and a half since I first became a believer.

It sounds kinda like my line, “I spent a week in El Paso one night.”
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But I can surely validate what Richard told you. Many godly men and women through the ages have struggled with terrible afflictions of both soul and body; crippling diseases, injuries, and mental/emotional disorders. Count it a privilege to be numbered with them in the Lamb’s book of life, and to be sustained by the same loving Lord as were they.
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Personally, I have run a touch-&-go race with severe clinical depression since childhood (long before there was a common diagnosis of same), along with painful fibromyalgia. The latter was also unknown during my youth, so I was labeled as lazy, no good, and a hypochondriac.
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I am not complaining. God has, as Paul said in Rom.8:28, used all these things toward His own good ends, which include my good and yours, all along. Whether or not I was aware of it (and mostly I wasn’t), I was being blessed in and even by my suffering.
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It isn’t idle small talk when He tells us to be of good cheer, when we are told to rejoice in our trials, and we are commanded to labor to enter into His rest. These things are as real as the God who gives them to us!

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Time Alone with God for me is the most importnat and most essential thing that every Christian should do. I fwe aim to be like Christ then let’s spend aulity time with him always!