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	<title>Comments on: Trevin Wax on Abortion, Anarchy and Antinomianism</title>
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	<link>http://www.fallenandflawed.com/trevin-wax-abortion-anarchy-antinomianism/</link>
	<description>Quick and dirty guide to living a vivid, meaningful Christian life</description>
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		<title>By: Demian Farnworth</title>
		<link>http://www.fallenandflawed.com/trevin-wax-abortion-anarchy-antinomianism/comment-page-1/#comment-154</link>
		<dc:creator>Demian Farnworth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2009 16:45:07 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Paul: I appreciate the numbers you shared about porn and Christians. Good stuff. Is it possible to link to them?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paul: I appreciate the numbers you shared about porn and Christians. Good stuff. Is it possible to link to them?</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Clutterbuck</title>
		<link>http://www.fallenandflawed.com/trevin-wax-abortion-anarchy-antinomianism/comment-page-1/#comment-152</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Clutterbuck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2009 04:47:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fallenandflawed.com/?p=663#comment-152</guid>
		<description>I would definitely agree with the OP and all the above commenters that abortion is wrong, no question about that, but if I were an American citizen I would still have voted for Obama on the grounds that he promises to have a more positive effect on the geopolitical situation, including Third World debt and (bless him) the racism and poverty in America that often is behind the &quot;choice&quot; to become pregnant and seek abortions in the first place. There are bigger issues at stake with the Obama administration.

I&#039;m right with Trevin on the issue of antinomianism (just have a look at my blog!). When you have 60% of American churchgoers admitting to regular use of porn, Christians admitting to being *producers* of the stuff, and 84% of Christian singles being sexually active, something is desperately wrong. Sadly, the youth leaders aren&#039;t saying anything about this, because too many of them are caught up in it themselves. Then you have the whole gay issue, and the divorce rate, which given current levels of immorality among Christian youth can only continue increasing for the next 25 years. That&#039;s just too sad for words.

I agree with you, Scott, when you say &quot;the important thing is they are dressed.&quot; If current trends continue, though, in another 10 years or so they may not be ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would definitely agree with the OP and all the above commenters that abortion is wrong, no question about that, but if I were an American citizen I would still have voted for Obama on the grounds that he promises to have a more positive effect on the geopolitical situation, including Third World debt and (bless him) the racism and poverty in America that often is behind the &#8220;choice&#8221; to become pregnant and seek abortions in the first place. There are bigger issues at stake with the Obama administration.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m right with Trevin on the issue of antinomianism (just have a look at my blog!). When you have 60% of American churchgoers admitting to regular use of porn, Christians admitting to being *producers* of the stuff, and 84% of Christian singles being sexually active, something is desperately wrong. Sadly, the youth leaders aren&#8217;t saying anything about this, because too many of them are caught up in it themselves. Then you have the whole gay issue, and the divorce rate, which given current levels of immorality among Christian youth can only continue increasing for the next 25 years. That&#8217;s just too sad for words.</p>
<p>I agree with you, Scott, when you say &#8220;the important thing is they are dressed.&#8221; If current trends continue, though, in another 10 years or so they may not be &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Trevin Wax</title>
		<link>http://www.fallenandflawed.com/trevin-wax-abortion-anarchy-antinomianism/comment-page-1/#comment-127</link>
		<dc:creator>Trevin Wax</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2009 14:28:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fallenandflawed.com/?p=663#comment-127</guid>
		<description>Scott,

I am not denying that there are many styles of worship that can be valid and valuable for local congregations. God is blessed by a variety of worship styles, no doubt.

What I am concerned about is the tendency within local congregations to segregate based on worship style. Even if such offerings are well-intended, they communicate to the outside world that our local congregation is more united around age and musical preference than around the cross.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scott,</p>
<p>I am not denying that there are many styles of worship that can be valid and valuable for local congregations. God is blessed by a variety of worship styles, no doubt.</p>
<p>What I am concerned about is the tendency within local congregations to segregate based on worship style. Even if such offerings are well-intended, they communicate to the outside world that our local congregation is more united around age and musical preference than around the cross.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Loeffler</title>
		<link>http://www.fallenandflawed.com/trevin-wax-abortion-anarchy-antinomianism/comment-page-1/#comment-126</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Loeffler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2009 13:56:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fallenandflawed.com/?p=663#comment-126</guid>
		<description>I am not sure I am with him on the consumerist approach.
 
If the message is the word of God but the music has a rock beat as opposed to a choir, it should not matter. The word is the word. If consumerism is bringing someone to Christ then it works. Some people like to wear slacks others Dockers. The important things is they are dressed.
 
The word of God stands tall through everything. I am not sure if it is a consumerist mindset but people are different. We choose to worship in different ways. As long as we keep the focus on the main thing.
 
If the church is doing God&#039;s work His way, God will determine its success.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am not sure I am with him on the consumerist approach.</p>
<p>If the message is the word of God but the music has a rock beat as opposed to a choir, it should not matter. The word is the word. If consumerism is bringing someone to Christ then it works. Some people like to wear slacks others Dockers. The important things is they are dressed.</p>
<p>The word of God stands tall through everything. I am not sure if it is a consumerist mindset but people are different. We choose to worship in different ways. As long as we keep the focus on the main thing.</p>
<p>If the church is doing God&#8217;s work His way, God will determine its success.</p>
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		<title>By: Demian Farnworth</title>
		<link>http://www.fallenandflawed.com/trevin-wax-abortion-anarchy-antinomianism/comment-page-1/#comment-125</link>
		<dc:creator>Demian Farnworth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 21:55:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fallenandflawed.com/?p=663#comment-125</guid>
		<description>Sir Nexus: Good thoughts. I appreciate you and Trevin&#039;s stance on more active dialog on the issue. This keeps me from falling onto the bandwagon of fetus fatigue, which, unfortunately,  I&#039;m prone to. And I like your statement &quot;Abortion is a sin matter.&quot; Christ, not legislation, is the power that will end abortion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sir Nexus: Good thoughts. I appreciate you and Trevin&#8217;s stance on more active dialog on the issue. This keeps me from falling onto the bandwagon of fetus fatigue, which, unfortunately,  I&#8217;m prone to. And I like your statement &#8220;Abortion is a sin matter.&#8221; Christ, not legislation, is the power that will end abortion.</p>
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		<title>By: Sir Nexus L. Connector</title>
		<link>http://www.fallenandflawed.com/trevin-wax-abortion-anarchy-antinomianism/comment-page-1/#comment-124</link>
		<dc:creator>Sir Nexus L. Connector</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 21:46:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fallenandflawed.com/?p=663#comment-124</guid>
		<description>I think America is closer to turning the corner on abortion than many realize. Hollywood and the mainstream media portray America as having a strong pro-choice majority, but professional polling data has shown a growing pro-life viewpoint over the last decade. 

Now is not the time for Christians to drop this issue. I agree with Trevin that pro-life people (I will not just limit this view to christians because a Hindu can be pro-life)need to be engaging on this issue now and bring it up in conversation. Let&#039;s not view it as &quot;impolite dinner conversation.&quot; Let&#039;s talk about abortion with boldness as well as in reasonable and fact based tones and approaches.

God bless the person who invented the ultrasound machine. This technology combined with the internet can help change people&#039;s hearts on when life begins. 

Yes, as Trevin stated, President Obama will likely set us back legislatively in regards to abortion. But we cannot become apathetic on this issue. Victory for the unborn is still possible.

We can end abortion if the church becomes a more effective reflection of Christ and wins enough souls. Abortion is a sin matter, and if enough people turn to Christ, then yes, abortion can one day become an unthinkable practice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think America is closer to turning the corner on abortion than many realize. Hollywood and the mainstream media portray America as having a strong pro-choice majority, but professional polling data has shown a growing pro-life viewpoint over the last decade. </p>
<p>Now is not the time for Christians to drop this issue. I agree with Trevin that pro-life people (I will not just limit this view to christians because a Hindu can be pro-life)need to be engaging on this issue now and bring it up in conversation. Let&#8217;s not view it as &#8220;impolite dinner conversation.&#8221; Let&#8217;s talk about abortion with boldness as well as in reasonable and fact based tones and approaches.</p>
<p>God bless the person who invented the ultrasound machine. This technology combined with the internet can help change people&#8217;s hearts on when life begins. </p>
<p>Yes, as Trevin stated, President Obama will likely set us back legislatively in regards to abortion. But we cannot become apathetic on this issue. Victory for the unborn is still possible.</p>
<p>We can end abortion if the church becomes a more effective reflection of Christ and wins enough souls. Abortion is a sin matter, and if enough people turn to Christ, then yes, abortion can one day become an unthinkable practice.</p>
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