Fallen and Flawed

I wholeheartedly agree with you. I’ve heard members of my former church call him “Obama Bin Laden” and a terrorist. There’s disagreeing with political policies, and there’s being petty and disrespectful.

Remember that passage in Romans 13 when Paul tells the Roman church to respect authorities in the government? Anyone care to guess who was in power in Rome at the time? Wasn’t your typical nice guy.

As Christ continues to develop my life in every way, today I find myself agreeing with your attitude on Obama. Four or more years ago, I admit that my view of Obama would have been much more negative and hostile. We are to follow the laws of Christ by praying for Obama and all of our leaders–regardless of their party affiliation or views.
But we must not stay silent in the coming years whenever an Obama decision goes against God’s principles. Even if his sins are fulfilling God’s will, true believers are to stand up for righteousness regardless. When that occurs, then both sides are fulfilling God’s perfect will.
I want to see Obama do well, but I’m not optimistic based on what I know of his own personal beliefs. Regardless of what happens, I know that I’m going to be fine. The Lord has my back.
God bless America.

@Andrew: Yeah, petty pop shots on Obama make my skin crawl. And I like your point about who was ruling during Paul’s time when he wrote Roman’s 13.

@Sir Nexus: Four years ago I’d probably have fallen into the same trap. Bottom line: we’re immature when we resort to that kind of behavior. We demand Obama to be honorable…let’s do the same. Thanks for sharing.

Demian,
I agree with the overall premise of your post. President Obama is indeed to be respected as the authority over our nation.

However, one major point of disagreement I have is that

Even if he becomes the worst nightmare evangelical Christians have ever seen…he’s not thwarting God’s will.

He’s fulfilling it.

God never wants anyone to sin. It is a result of our free will, and is going to happen since we are sinful people.

Now, since God is omniscient, He obviously is not surprised when we sin and has planned accordingly, but I would argue that it is still not His will.

That being said, we’ve had bad Presidents in the past and will again in the future. While I do not like many of President Obama’s political beliefs, He is not my source or my provider and as such, I’m not fearful of his term(s) in office. If Christians would spend more time praying for our country and our leaders (including President Obama) and less time fretting over or cursing the results of the elections, we’d be in a much better place.

Ben: I’m with you. I should have said ordained. As you pointed out…He’s aware of past, present and future. Yet, the responsibility of sin rests squarely on us. Appreciate your thoughts.

Maybe I’m just being way too picky with words today

Either way, yet another solid post. Keep it up!

Demian,
I believe I was out sick four and eight years ago when the memo came out to believe that Bush practically walked on water and that as an Evangelical Christian I should be doing flips of joy. While I spent the last eight years praying for him, often begrudgingly, I could not help but feel that God and this country made a mistake. How could this guy be president? How could this country vote him in for a second term? He seemed inept, foolish, unprepared and unwise. (Just the opposite of my perceptions of Obama.) And when we entered Iraq after 9/11, I was in the minority when I spoke with other Christians of my feelings that our doing so was a lot like having a bad day and coming home and kicking the dog. While I’ve been a born-again believer for more than 35 years now, spent some time as an assistant pastor, am filled with the Holy Spirit and read Scripture and pray daily, I’ve learned that it’s not only okay to disagree with the majority, it is sometimes mandated to be a voice crying in the wilderness. I believe that God is active and working in all the world’s affairs, and that President Obama is indeed God’s man. I’m looking forward to our future as a nation more so than I have in nearly a decade. I believe he’s exactly what we all need right now and for the next eight years. (Yes, I believe he’ll serve a second term.) And some may say I’ve lost my marbles, too. It wouldn’t be the first time. Truth is I may not have ever had them to begin with!

As a brand new reader and first time commenter, I wanted to tell you, as one curmudgeon to another, that your blog resonates with me. Keep up the good work!

Richard, so grateful for your thoughts. And your support. It’s good to know there are other curmudgeon’s out there.

I voted twice for Bush but I walked away scratching my head this last 4 years wondering what happened. I felt the same way when Clinton walked out of office. Possibly with Obama.

Yet, there are a lot of things about Obama I find impressive. I think he is the kind of statesman our nation needs. And I agree with you that he’ll win a second term. Possibly quite handily. He could work like a charm.

I won’t go as far as to say he’s God’s man…because we are all in a sense God’s men…but one thing I think some enthusiastic Obama supporters forget is that we are comparing Bush’s actions against Obama’s intentions.

I used to wait tables and popular saying was, “Your only as good as your last table.” I’m looking forward to what happens. Obama’s got a lot on his plate. He needs our prayers. Let’s hold each other accountable to do just that.

Thanks again for the support.

With Obama as president, all we can do is pray.

However, what does one have to do when Obama committed sin, after sin? Impeach him? Tried that with B. Clinton, and that didn’t go anywhere. Are we even suppose to take him down, or continue to pray for him?

There’s gotta be more we can do.

Support him, Rudy. And yes, fight him. And punish him. But treat him also the way you’d want to be treated. Like Andrew pointed out above, Paul exhorted us to submit to authority in Romans 13…and the one in power was a sadistic Roman.

What do you mean by “support”? I think it would be better to say you desire good for him. Even to say that you love him. But “support” means something that you might not intend in today’s society.

If I say hear someone say “I support Obama” I would think that they mean they support his policies. I would hate for anyone to think for one nanosecond that I support his policy of unrestricted abortion. I don’t think babies are punishment (as he has said) in any circumstance.

That said, I do want the very best for him. I don’t want his presidency bogged down with reprehensible legislation that drags his name through the historical mud. So, I want his policies/agendas to fail…because (in my estimation) that would be good for him and the lives of the unborn.

Even more, I want a change of heart for him–to realize the value of a life in the womb. (I hope he changes his mind on other things too, but this is the big issue for me).

Something tells me that Paul didn’t support Nero, he wouldn’t have voted for him.. he obeyed him.. he probably loved him. Very different and perhaps more difficult.

I think your right to admonish conservatives not to be mean/hateful toward him. But to desire good for someone and love them may mean not supporting them.
http://abigailsleftovers.wordpress.com/2009/01/20/hoping-for-failure/

@Abigail. You are right. “To desire good for someone and love them may mean not supporting them.” I appreciate the distinction. I appreciate the contribution. And I’m with you: I want a change of heart for him.

I don’t understand why we’re so judgmental towards Obama? He needs to repent of his sins? What about our own?

Never did Obama say he was pro-abortion. His mindset is rather, we need to focus on reducing unwanted pregnancies as opposed to focusing on these debates that have divided us for decades. Did we not have a pro-life president in office for eight years? And yet abortions did not go down, but increased during that time.

Perhaps Obama realizes that saying that he is pro-life isn’t going to get him anywhere. Perhaps he believes is that as President he may be able to make some positive Christian change (however small it may be) by bringing everyone together, instead of dividing us, and by loving the people he meets.

And perhaps this will ultimately be the cure for abortion. If more and more women feel loved in this world, then I would guess that less women would want to do abortion. That’s my theory.

Good points, David.

David, Demian,

I’m kind of worked up here. For once I really do disagree with you Demian.. David’s points are not good. C’mon. Where is the logical and compelling argument here?? Where is the Jesus-like compassion??

Of course Pres. Obama is not pro-life. It’s pretty rare to hear anyone say they’re “pro-abortion,” rather, pro-choice is acceptable term for those who believe abortion should be the right of every woman.

And that is what Obama believes. We need not argue about his position and try and make him sound pro-life because we want him to be. Simply google his position and voting record. Strip away the rhetoric and here is what’s left: abortion is a right for every woman at any point of her pregnancy (and in some cases even after the baby is born!!!) and should remain so indefinitely. Saying that he is secretly trying to get rid of abortion by helping women feel loved?! Sorry, not buying it. And not buying that if that were his strategy that it would work.

Speculating about the “mindset” of the President on supporting abortion as a means of getting rid of it (as if we know him personally) is silly. It’s as silly as if I said I think the intent of his heart is that he really thinks being gay is wrong, which is why he declared June LGBT month. That would be pure speculation (and logically false).

And neither Pres Bush nor Pres Obama are able to have a direct impact on abortion. It’s not their role. The biggest thing they can do is to appoint judges and sign and veto bills written by the legislature. But they can influence the opinion of a nation.

Let me say this, as someone who has labored for many years, in many capacities for the cause of life, I wish that more Christians would take up this cause and quit being embarrassed by it. Get a holy ambition. Decide that it *is* something worth uniting and dividing over.

No, being pro-life isn’t fashionable. It’s even less fashionable now that it’s so passe. It’s so boring now, right? Haven’t we all been down this road? Why are we still getting worked up about the same old thing? Why can’t we move on to something more chic in the evangelical world like race relations? I mean really, talking about abortion just divides us.. and it’s soo uncomfortable. Those pictures of the procedure; how ugly, they might make someone feel bad. Let’s just get over it and move on, huh?

I’ll tell you why so many of us won’t get over this issue: because it’s life and death. We won’t get over it because actual babies, knit together by the Creator, His image-bearers, are being slaughtered. I’m glad that abolitionists didn’t get over slavery. One day I hope that’s what this issue will resemble.

And there are still compelling arguments to be made for life. Many relate exactly to the race issue. Abortion has become the new racism; the new sexism.
http://abigailsleftovers.wordpress.com/2009/01/31/abortion-race-and-the-deceit-of-intentions/

I assume you are pro-life, Demian. I don’t question that. I just would love a more vigorous defense of the babies being slaughtered while we wait for women to get more “loved.” Pro-choicers believe that they are *loving* women by allowing them to get an abortion.

Loving women means a lot of things, but it doesn’t mean making it their right to kill what is a miraculous gift from the Creator. That is hating women. And it’s hating the little women that they are killing.

Yes, I feel strongly about this. Yes, I hate Obama’s view on this. And yes, I am praying for him and hoping he changes.

Sorry for the comment spew.

Passionate for God’s glory to be displayed in the womb and outside,
Abigail

Abigail, saying “good points” doesn’t mean I agree with EVERYTHING he said. I was referring to his string of questions that launched the comment.